Top Voters of November, New '/f top' System, & More!

Discussion in 'Desteria Announcements' started by iLemon, Nov 4, 2018.

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  1. ElJuank

    ElJuank Peasant

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    El_Juank
    Leaving aside the votes I have to say that, despite your good intentions, I think the new changes in /f top are a disaster since, in a certain way, this would benefit the great factions, and that's the opposite of what should be done. On the other hand I think that it's a bit contradictory to not count player balances since you say you want a better way to calculate people's hard work and dedication; building one of the main farms (without spawners), how could it be a cactus or a sugar cane farm, takes a lot of effort and dedication since you have to build something considerably big, using many resources, in order to obtain a more or less profitable benefit. I know that some of these farms may be quite OP, but the smaller factions are going to be the most vulnerable ones to these changes while the larger ones, in some way, will deal with it.

    This is quite complicated to summarize but, somehow, despite your good intentions, since a priori these changes should encourage players to place early, defense their bases and etc, etc, they become contradictory and in my humble opinion they will help great factions which will quit competitiveness to the game (thing that the game has been losing almost exponentially) and in a way will ruin the game.

    I don't know, maybe I'm wrong (I hope) and this new update will bring many new things, but from what I'm seeing, and not just because of this but because of previous changes and the direction Desteria is taking, I think this is going to be disappointing :confused:
     
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  2. Hippostrocy

    Hippostrocy Explorer

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    HippoDaKill
    Please tell us when Desteria Plus is coming out, we all just can't wait!
     
  3. Coconut

    Coconut Explorer

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    CoconutClaus
    What would you propose to replace this system? I'm genuinely very interested to know.
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 5, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 5, 2018 ---
    The community is already complaining that the team did not follow a date that they did nit TECHNICALLY commit to, so giving a date that would potentially be pushed back would probably not be a very good idea imo.
     
  4. Omega

    Omega Community Manager
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    xOmega
    Let's talk about your points here and how they may already be addressed:

    - This would benefit the great factions
    How would this benefit great factions? Placing early is placing early - it's the same for everyone. The only difference that would cause it to "benefit" great factions is that they are more organized and efficient than a single or duo faction which is obvious to begin with and a change to the f-top system would never change that. If I'm missing the point here, please let me know but that's what I gathered from this point.

    - It's a bit contradictory to not count player's balances since you want a better way to calculate people's hard work and dedication.
    It isn't contradictory at all. The main issue with counting player's balances is exactly that they don't have to DO anything to get a higher F-Top - so they can just sit on money and win. The point of removing balances from F-Top calculation is to encourage players to buy spawners and place them....hence allowing for more raiding to happen. Also, there should be a ton of stuff for players to spend their balances on anyways so I doubt anyone will be hoarding money for awhile.

    - something about farms affecting smaller factions more than larger factions
    The theme here is to diversify spawners so they are leveled across a few categories and allow factions to pick and choose which ones they want to use - while allowing them to be upgraded to more profitable spawners. Farms should only be used near the beginning to pick up your first few spawners, in which you should transition into spawners accordingly. I think a big part of this failure to transition has been because of crop hoppers, but I could be wrong there. Ultimately, I kind of like the idea of just giving people starter spawners and removing crops altogether....but I highly doubt people would like that idea at all.

    -placing early destroys competitiveness
    I don't see how placing early is contradictory to anything. The only reason big factions would lose competitiveness is if they were the ONLY power faction on a realm, in which case I see your point - but that's difficult to judge because I've seen quite a few people who have quit saying they will at least come back and check out the new update. With that, you have a large influx of players and big factions all competing. That, alongside the way F-Top will be calculated multiple times throughout the map, will keep people on their toes and fighting for F-Top either by placing a lot of trying to blow up other faction's spawners.


    Hopefully that touches on at least a couple of your points. I apologize since it was difficult to create your concerns in the form of statements that read well, so I could totally be misrepresenting your views and I'd like you to correct me if I am wrong in that sense.
     
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  5. Coconut

    Coconut Explorer

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    CoconutClaus
    It's easier to raid smaller factions than bigger factions. Smaller factions will usually get raided way more than bigger ones due to the nature of factions. This means the gap will be even more increased with the smaller and bigger factions' ftop values, as the smaller factions will get their spawners more frequently.
     
  6. AusTho

    AusTho Backpacker

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    AusTho
    Maybe they should just recruit more people? :D
     
  7. JamesDaKill

    JamesDaKill Nobility

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    JamesDaKill


    Well if you get more f top with the longer you have spawners placed, it will obviously benefit big factions because they can cover all timezones and have more people to check walls / defend than smaller factions, meaning their spawners stay up for longer, whereas factions with only a few people will have weak times in which people can easily raid them and then rip their spawners.
     
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  8. ElJuank

    ElJuank Peasant

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    El_Juank
    @Omega You didn't understand me at all, but that's okey, I don't explain myself very well.

    I think that the best thing to do would be, for example, to make a system that counts the faction values every x time and, at the end of the map, make an average with the total. What would this mean? The factions that put their spawners earlier would keep/maintain their value instead of increasing it, and it would motivate people to place their spawners early in the same way as with your new /f top changes. It's quite similar to what you have proposed but it will maintain competitiveness since there wouldn't be very large faction value differences.

    Let me give you a practical example; let's suppose that the faction value is counted 3 times after the players have built their bases factions already have their bases built and have some spawners (I say this because counting from first week wouldn't make much sense).
    A faction that places all its spawners early and maintains them would maintain its value. Ex:

    - First value scrutiny, the faction has, for example, 1 million value,
    - Second value scrutiny, this same faction has 2 millions,
    - Third (and last) value scrutiny they have 2,5 millions,
    At the end of the map the average of this faction is 1,8 millions.

    Normally the big factions are the ones which get and place their spawners early, in order to be in /f top and be recognized, and many of these remain in the /f top till the end of the map for things like the ones @JamesDaKill has commented. I know that the idea that I proposed, which I have not even proposed as I used it as an example, is not good and I actually thought about it in 5 minutes, but what you propose isn't that good either.

    On the other hand, about player's balances, I wouldn't count their total balance, but a small percentage. I agree with you when you say that "they don't have to DO anything to get a higher F-Top - so they can just sit on money and win", but I also think it's not okay to go to the other extreme and not counting player's balances. :confused:

    I repeat, I am not trying to attack you, much less underestimate your work, I am aware that it is not easy and you do everything possible so that Desteria remains a competent sever (which is obvious) but I think you are leading to a wrong direction.
     
  9. Leins

    Leins Forest Guardian

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    The developers are working more on lemon cloud than Desteria, always gonna be that way. Ya dig?
     
  10. Bon

    Bon Citizen

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    smaller factions arnt worth raiding to the people who cant raid
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 6, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 6, 2018 ---
     
  11. Carbon

    Carbon Helper

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    Carbun
    How does this affect players insiding? The rule currently is that if the items they took are returned, then no punishment is issued. But this "no cost to mine spawners" thing is gonna make insiding easier. If the person returns the items, are they still subject to punishment since the value of ftop still would have decreased drastically? Would a system be implemented to give the users who got insided, and got their items back a way to get their ftop value back?
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 7, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 7, 2018 ---
    Another question I have is, would their be a cap on how high the values per spawner can go? Can I simply put a pig spawner down within the first minute of the map, then by the end of the map have 1.6Bil in faction value because that spawner has been placed the whole map?
     
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  12. Tabby

    Tabby Nobility

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    TabbyTops
    Good thought. It could become a meta where ah is dead and nobody sells spawners because of that, like everyone would just place any spawners they have. There needs to be a cap on things unfortunately, it's less fun but necessary imo. Another reason for having a cap like you described is that we don't want to make it too unfair for factions that started later on in the reset. Obviously if you're there for sotw you should be better because you've started earlier but with this new system if a faction starts a month in and raids a ton to get more spawners than the f top 1 faction, they still will be lower in f top. More stuff to think about, nice Carbon.
     
  13. Nate

    Nate Overlord

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    I thought it meant that it would go up over time. Example:

    Faction Value of an IG is 4 million. When placed, the spawner will slowly increase from 0 to 4 million over time. @Tabby
     
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  14. Tabby

    Tabby Nobility

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    TabbyTops
    I think it's more that you would buy an IG, the fac value is 4 mil, then over time it would go up by like 500k each period (example).
     
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  15. Nate

    Nate Overlord

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    Yes that’s what I’m trying to say. I completely agree.
     
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  16. Carbon

    Carbon Helper

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    Carbun
    I do think that is what was intended. I think it starts at a base value then every hour that spawner gains value.
     
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  17. Omega

    Omega Community Manager
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    xOmega
    To clarify how this works, it would increase over time UP TO it's max amount - so yes, it would cap out eventually. The system would only be there to keep people from winning by just throwing all their spawners down a day before ftop is taken.
     
  18. Carbon

    Carbon Helper

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    Carbun
    So what you are saying is that if ig's are worth 4mil, then they start out as being worth $0 then slowly reach their 4mil value over time, but don't go over?
     
  19. Omega

    Omega Community Manager
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    xOmega
    We won't be using those values, but yes basically.
     
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  20. Tabby

    Tabby Nobility

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    TabbyTops
    Any reasoning why it's not like this? -

    Bit thrown off guard with what you said, I think most people thought the announcement was more what I said. Hope that makes sense.
     
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