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The big issue with badlion client.

VJO

Backpacker

Badlion Client


Introduction

I have seen a lot of posts about Badlion client. Majority of these have either been unproductive ranting about how "the server sucks" or troll posts more targeting the comedic values of the situation rather then the situation itself. With that being said I have decided to attempt to speak up and get across why it is a bad choice to incorporate third party launcher requirements into a server like Desteria. Just to give a quick disclaimer, I absolutely did not make this post to bash management or point disrespect towards the server or staff team. They work extremely hard to create a quality game-play environment for Desteria and I'd like to personally thank the entire team for that here and now. With that out of the way I'll now get right into why I personally think Badlion client is an idea that could have a lot of negative effects for Drego realm or even the server itself.


Community Building Setbacks

I feel that potentially the biggest issue with the entire implementation of badlion client is that it limits the community you can build. For some servers implementing third party launchers is the correct route because the game-play provided targets only one aspect of the game and therefor only is targeting one singular audience. This means the benefits of whatever that launcher provides (Less rule breaking) is attributed to that server with no consequences community wise. With Desteria, I feel as if this is a different situation with a different audience. Desteria is one gamemode however, the gamemode encompasses many aspects of the game. Anyone would enjoy Desteria because you can play it any way you want. With that being said people have very diverging goals when it comes to factions and because of that, the effort of implementing Badlion client might solve one issue while creating ten more. An example would be if a new player looked up "Good minecraft servers" and found Desteria because it was listed under open world survival, as well as factions. That player would join the server, click Drego realm, and not understand why they where blinded. I understand fully that it is simple to download Badlion client but why would a brand new player decide to go to the link provided ingame, make an account with Badlion, download an entirely new program to run there Minecraft, log into there account with that program and then proceed to reboot there existing instance of the game simply to log onto a server they have just found. The simple answer to this question is that they would not do any of that and within 30 seconds would go to the next server on that server list tagged with the same thing Desteria was tagged with. People like convenience. Desteria up until Drego has provided this perfectly without question. I worry that despite the fact that Drego realm is supposed to be competitive and fair, it may drive away a large part of the potential and existing community in the pursuit of being as fair as possible.

Finance

Despite this is really none of my business I think it needs to be said simply because it is very relevant to the question of whether Badlion client is a good choice. Since Desteria is using Badlion client over other launchers that do the same thing, I would have to assume that the launchers management team is somehow compensating that decision in some form or fashion, whether that is server funding or simply accommodating part of the payout. If this is true then I would have to add that point onto the assets list of Badlion client simply because if the server is gaining much needed funds from deciding to implement it, then that could potentially benefit the server as a whole. The question we all need to ask is, would Desteria potentially gain more from opening the flood gates of all player base types into the realm rather then taking monetary gain from Badlion client. This is up for discussion and I really have nothing else to say on the topic as I don't know to much about it.

Cheating

The topic of cheating is something that is always brought up especially in competitive environments like Drego realm. While this is a valid reason to implement methods to stop cheating, the question you have to ask yourself is, "What is the best method". While implementing third party launchers is a good route for some servers I personally think that having more staff and more moderation server wide is the solution to Desterias cheating issues. I know that Desterias SS tool is a very powerful one. It can catch pretty much anything that may be lurking behind an innocent looking players screen. With that being said the correct route is not to change and sacrifice other important aspects of the server to increase the protection of fair gameplay. The solution is to increase the productivity of what already works well which is Screen Sharing. If more moderating was happening, then less cheating would happen. You don't need a player side anticheat that requires signing up for a third party launcher to achieve this goal. You just need a larger team dedicating themselves to the pursuit of server moderating. Just to quickly recap the moral here is not that the staff team does not do there jobs good enough. The staff team does an amazing job, however I feel that it is not growing at the rate it should and that is what is causing the problem of excessive cheating.

Conclusion

To conclude this post I would just like to personally thank you for hearing me out. Despite this mainly targeting my issues with the new update, I would like to speak for the entire community not myself alone. With that being said please leave your feedback in the replies of this post and share your opinion on the situation as well as this post itself if you'd like. If you have any other important points to add that will either justify or dis-justify Badlion client being required, then please message me on the forums and I'll see if it's necessary to be added in the original post. If you don't want to have to talk to me then feel free to just chuck it in the replies as I will be reading all of those. Thank you for your time and I hope everyone has a wonderful day.

- VJO
 

Attachments

Mit

Peasant
The use of a client side anticheat is not necessarily needed if you have a good server side anticheat for your server as well as good screen sharers. The server side anticheat can be solved easily, but the server seriously needs to get experienced screensharers as paladian does not detect all clients and relying on it solely to catch cheaters is a horrible decision as many things do indeed bypass paladian. Additionally, badlion anticheat does not detect autoclicker either so it's kinda pointless.
 

VJO

Backpacker
The use of a client side anticheat is not necessarily needed if you have a good server side anticheat for your server as well as good screen sharers. The server side anticheat can be solved easily, but the server seriously needs to get experienced screensharers as paladian does not detect all clients and relying on it solely to catch cheaters is a horrible decision as many things do indeed bypass paladian. Additionally, badlion anticheat does not detect autoclicker either so it's kinda pointless.
I can agree with this. Quality and Quantity is key. I personally think Quality of the staff team is at a solid level however Quantity is just as important.
 

CowAF

Explorer
+1 very well written post except for the fact that drego is not the only realm on desteria and you can play the others without badlion client. So the whole point where players have to download a whole other client just to play is not true at all.
 

VJO

Backpacker
+1 very well written post except for the fact that drego is not the only realm on desteria and you can play the others without badlion client. So the whole point where players have to download a whole other client just to play is not true at all.
While this is true nonetheless, I still think it's a little bit of a drawback server wide as players may not give the server a chance because of it. Nonetheless it's a fair point that the other servers do not require it. I still think it would benefit the playerbase of Drego especially if they did not have it though.
 

colindog

Backpacker
The use of a client side anticheat is not necessarily needed if you have a good server side anticheat for your server as well as good screen sharers. The server side anticheat can be solved easily, but the server seriously needs to get experienced screensharers as paladian does not detect all clients and relying on it solely to catch cheaters is a horrible decision as many things do indeed bypass paladian. Additionally, badlion anticheat does not detect autoclicker either so it's kinda pointless.
First of all, server-side anti-cheats are much worse than client-side ones. In addition, they can cause false bans due to lag. Server-side anti-cheats may be able to ban extremely blatant hackers, but most clients are able to bypass such things. Paladin doesn't detect all clients, but it detects MOST. Badlion has stated why autoclickers contribute nearly nothing when it comes to pvp. And even if they did detect autoclickers, it would be nearly impossible as they can be external.
@colindog STOP SNIFFING ASS BUD
u sniff more ass
While this is true nonetheless, I still think it's a little bit of a drawback server wide as players may not give the server a chance because of it. Nonetheless it's a fair point that the other servers do not require it. I still think it would benefit the playerbase of Drego especially if they did not have it though.
Bud, Drego is a competitive realm. PayPal money is put on the line. People take hours out of their daily life to win the map. Letting cheaters bypass all of that hard work is completely unfair for a **competitive** server which offers **PayPal** money.
 

VJO

Backpacker
While I understand that I just feel there are much better ways to achieve a fair and balanced server environment but hey, maybe this is the best method. I mainly created this to give anyone who would like to talk about it a place.
 

Narwhalogy

Crusader
17 players actual players LOLLLL 2nd day of reset
just remove blc and improve the main realms stop investing your time into drego for a little bit and come back to the the realms people actually play :$
 

iLemon

Desteria Owner
Staff member
Owner
17 players actual players LOLLLL 2nd day of reset
just remove blc and improve the main realms stop investing your time into drego for a little bit and come back to the the realms people actually play :$
It's a lot higher, and BAC is not 100% forced at the moment. The only restriction is not being able to attack other players (people are using full bright to avoid the blindness). Drego covers its costs in the first few hours so there's no reason to stop running it.

We're currently working on Godly Kits which is a global update coming very soon, and plans to expand into new gamemodes are being secretly worked on.
 

Ryan

Crusader
-1 I actually love playing drego without people having tracers, nametags and free camming everything. Playing factions legit is so much more fun especially when you know everyone is forced to play legit and have no advantage over you. I feel the only reason why people are complaining about the reset is due to schematic and printer crashes not the fact that you have to use badlion itself, lets not forget there is a difference between server issues and BLC bugs/issues. Schematica is a fairly new mod on badlion client and we are the first server to be using it for factions and in future im sure more factions servers will be doing what drego is currently.
 

VJO

Backpacker
It's a lot higher, and BAC is not 100% forced at the moment. The only restriction is not being able to attack other players (people are using full bright to avoid the blindness). Drego covers its costs in the first few hours so there's no reason to stop running it.

We're currently working on Godly Kits which is a global update coming very soon, and plans to expand into new gamemodes are being secretly worked on.
Sounds awesome especially the server expansion portion. Reguarding Badlion client, I commented on the fact that it does not actually keep you from playing... actually I more or less referenced it rather then clarifying it. Nonetheless it does spam text in front of your screen and I still feel it's a big inconvenience. To enforce something there has to be inconvenience evolved. That was the point of this post. To discuss if its in the servers best interest to implement this new updates content.
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-1 I actually love playing drego without people having tracers, nametags and free camming everything. Playing factions legit is so much more fun especially when you know everyone is forced to play legit and have no advantage over you. I feel the only reason why people are complaining about the reset is due to schematic and printer crashes not the fact that you have to use badlion itself, lets not forget there is a difference between server issues and BLC bugs/issues. Schematica is a fairly new mod on badlion client and we are the first server to be using it for factions and in future im sure more factions servers will be doing what drego is currently.
Completely agree... I love playing without cheaters as well. I'm simple asking if there is a better way to handle it then this. You can actually autoclick with Badlion client so it does not 100% stop it. Despite that I think it stops most thing that cause big issues (Such as tracers).
 

Ryan

Crusader
Sounds awesome especially the server expansion portion. Reguarding Badlion client, I commented on the fact that it does not actually keep you from playing... actually I more or less referenced it rather then clarifying it. Nonetheless it does spam text in front of your screen and I still feel it's a big inconvenience. To enforce something there has to be inconvenience evolved. That was the point of this post. To discuss if its in the servers best interest to implement this new updates content.
Post automatically merged:


Completely agree... I love playing without cheaters as well. I'm simple asking if there is a better way to handle it then this. You can actually autoclick with Badlion client so it does not 100% stop it. Despite that I think it stops most thing that cause big issues (Such as tracers).
Imo auto-clicking is not that big of an advantage and if it is a problem @iLemon has a feature where he can cap cps via BLC.
 

VJO

Backpacker
Imo auto-clicking is not that big of an advantage and if it is a problem @iLemon has a feature where he can cap cps via BLC.
Didn't know you could cap cps without some type of program that kicks you for having to much. Anyways yea like I said, badlion client is good for a lot of things and that is why I did not just say it was crap and leave like everyone else who has made a post like this XD.
 

Badlion Client


Introduction

I have seen a lot of posts about Badlion client. Majority of these have either been unproductive ranting about how "the server sucks" or troll posts more targeting the comedic values of the situation rather then the situation itself. With that being said I have decided to attempt to speak up and get across why it is a bad choice to incorporate third party launcher requirements into a server like Desteria. Just to give a quick disclaimer, I absolutely did not make this post to bash management or point disrespect towards the server or staff team. They work extremely hard to create a quality game-play environment for Desteria and I'd like to personally thank the entire team for that here and now. With that out of the way I'll now get right into why I personally think Badlion client is an idea that could have a lot of negative effects for Drego realm or even the server itself.

Community Building Setbacks

I feel that potentially the biggest issue with the entire implementation of badlion client is that it limits the community you can build. For some servers implementing third party launchers is the correct route because the game-play provided targets only one aspect of the game and therefor only is targeting one singular audience. This means the benefits of whatever that launcher provides (Less rule breaking) is attributed to that server with no consequences community wise. With Desteria, I feel as if this is a different situation with a different audience. Desteria is one gamemode however, the gamemode encompasses many aspects of the game. Anyone would enjoy Desteria because you can play it any way you want. With that being said people have very diverging goals when it comes to factions and because of that, the effort of implementing Badlion client might solve one issue while creating ten more. An example would be if a new player looked up "Good minecraft servers" and found Desteria because it was listed under open world survival, as well as factions. That player would join the server, click Drego realm, and not understand why they where blinded. I understand fully that it is simple to download Badlion client but why would a brand new player decide to go to the link provided ingame, make an account with Badlion, download an entirely new program to run there Minecraft, log into there account with that program and then proceed to reboot there existing instance of the game simply to log onto a server they have just found. The simple answer to this question is that they would not do any of that and within 30 seconds would go to the next server on that server list tagged with the same thing Desteria was tagged with. People like convenience. Desteria up until Drego has provided this perfectly without question. I worry that despite the fact that Drego realm is supposed to be competitive and fair, it may drive away a large part of the potential and existing community in the pursuit of being as fair as possible.

Finance

Despite this is really none of my business I think it needs to be said simply because it is very relevant to the question of whether Badlion client is a good choice. Since Desteria is using Badlion client over other launchers that do the same thing, I would have to assume that the launchers management team is somehow compensating that decision in some form or fashion, whether that is server funding or simply accommodating part of the payout. If this is true then I would have to add that point onto the assets list of Badlion client simply because if the server is gaining much needed funds from deciding to implement it, then that could potentially benefit the server as a whole. The question we all need to ask is, would Desteria potentially gain more from opening the flood gates of all player base types into the realm rather then taking monetary gain from Badlion client. This is up for discussion and I really have nothing else to say on the topic as I don't know to much about it.

Cheating

The topic of cheating is something that is always brought up especially in competitive environments like Drego realm. While this is a valid reason to implement methods to stop cheating, the question you have to ask yourself is, "What is the best method". While implementing third party launchers is a good route for some servers I personally think that having more staff and more moderation server wide is the solution to Desterias cheating issues. I know that Desterias SS tool is a very powerful one. It can catch pretty much anything that may be lurking behind an innocent looking players screen. With that being said the correct route is not to change and sacrifice other important aspects of the server to increase the protection of fair gameplay. The solution is to increase the productivity of what already works well which is Screen Sharing. If more moderating was happening, then less cheating would happen. You don't need a player side anticheat that requires signing up for a third party launcher to achieve this goal. You just need a larger team dedicating themselves to the pursuit of server moderating. Just to quickly recap the moral here is not that the staff team does not do there jobs good enough. The staff team does an amazing job, however I feel that it is not growing at the rate it should and that is what is causing the problem of excessive cheating.

Conclusion

To conclude this post I would just like to personally thank you for hearing me out. Despite this mainly targeting my issues with the new update, I would like to speak for the entire community not myself alone. With that being said please leave your feedback in the replies of this post and share your opinion on the situation as well as this post itself if you'd like. If you have any other important points to add that will either justify or dis-justify Badlion client being required, then please message me on the forums and I'll see if it's necessary to be added in the original post. If you don't want to have to talk to me then feel free to just chuck it in the replies as I will be reading all of those. Thank you for your time and I hope everyone has a wonderful day.

- VJO
Well written, very good points.
Post automatically merged:

It's a lot higher, and BAC is not 100% forced at the moment. The only restriction is not being able to attack other players (people are using full bright to avoid the blindness). Drego covers its costs in the first few hours so there's no reason to stop running it.

We're currently working on Godly Kits which is a global update coming very soon, and plans to expand into new gamemodes are being secretly worked on.
one issue still not taken care of, Mac Users, I am a mac user and have spent countless guides looking for guides, videos, etc. Some of them,work for some people but I still do not have bad lion. I've exhausted every option and gave decided I'm,going to play Drego without it. More resources towards helping mac users struggling to get your required client would be greatly appreciated.
 

VJO

Backpacker
Well written, very good points.
Post automatically merged:


one issue still not taken care of, Mac Users, I am a mac user and have spent countless guides looking for guides, videos, etc. Some of them,work for some people but I still do not have bad lion. I've exhausted every option and gave decided I'm,going to play Drego without it. More resources towards helping mac users struggling to get your required client would be greatly appreciated.
Completely forgot to mention that. Been hearing something about mac users being upset about it.
 
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